A mostly political/identity-focused episode of The Bulwark’s The Next Level, centered on Tucker Carlson’s public break with Trumpism, the credibility of “I was wrong” reversals, and a broader fight over the future of MAGA after Trump. The hosts also debate whether Donald Trump Jr. could inherit the movement and how polling might affect succession dynamics.
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The episode opens with a light, self-referential segment about JVL winning a Webbys-style award and joking about the absurdity of awards shows, then quickly shifts into the main political discussion: Tucker Carlson having his brother Buckley Carlson on the show and using the segment to express regret about having supported Trump. The hosts debate whether Tucker’s apparent repentance is meaningful or just a new positioning move. JVL argues that even if Tucker is a charlatan, his willingness to say “I was wrong” is more than what most responsible conservatives have done; Sarah Longwell and Tim Miller push back that Tucker is fundamentally a con man whose reversal is tactical rather than sincere. …
Immediate setup: the right is in a visible credibility shuffle as Tucker Carlson and other figures test post-Trump positioning. The tactical risk is that this is more branding than real breakaway politics, so any apparent defection should be treated cautiously.
Over the coming weeks and months, the likely path is continued faction-sorting on the right, with Trump’s polling and public durability determining how far succession talk goes. A real shift would require visible donor, media, and elite movement away from Trump rather than just rhetorical regret.
The structural issue is succession: Trumpism may persist only if a new figure can inherit the emotional coalition without collapsing under its contradictions. If not, the movement likely fractures into competing grifts and mini-cults rather than a stable post-Trump regime.
Tucker Carlson is signaling regret about his role in helping Donald Trump, and that regret is framed as a meaningful moment of conscience.
The speakers quote Carlson saying he feels implicated and wants to apologize for misleading people.
Carlson is not being treated as a sincere repentant figure by the speakers; they describe him as a con man and opportunist.
Tim explicitly says Carlson is a charlatan, liar, and con man who is being motivated by a different bet.
The pro-Trump coalition is splitting between an "America First" wing and a MAGA establishment wing.
The speakers repeatedly describe a fork in the movement and different elite alignments.
Did JVL think about his five-word Webbys speech?
JVL says his five words are "[__] Trump" but thinks they wouldn't put that on screen.
Was this always the plan with Trump?
JVL and Tim Miller push back, saying Tucker is a con man who wants to run for president and lead the splintered America First movement, not someone genuinely repentant. Sarah Longwell agrees that Tucker and MTG are trying to take the worst instincts of Trump's America First agenda forward.
Isn't what Tucker said all we really want to hear?
Tim and Sarah emphatically say no. Tim argues Tucker said he was wrong but didn't say 'we were right' and is still a con man. Sarah says Tucker and MTG want to lead an America First army, not genuinely change.
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